Non Kosher Wine


#1

Someone told me something i thought was a interesting.
since the main reasons for not drinking non kosher wine today do not apply they technically in todays world are equal to any alcohol. which should according to halacha not be drank at your local watering hole. based on that there may be a case to say i can buy a non kosher bottle of wine and drink it in my own home.

is this person crazy? or is there some validity to what they are saying?


#2

Person is incorrect.
The wines today have been downgraded from possible Yayin Nesech to Yayin Stam.
However it still needs supervision or at least a confirmation that it was not touched nor poured by a non-Jew.


#3

A follow up question: I have always been told that I need to pour nonkosher wine that I received as a gift down the toilet. I have received countless bottles of expensive nonkosher wine and have done just that. Just received another. After reading this, Iโ€™m wondering why I canโ€™t regift it.


#4

You are correct in your assumption, that you may re-gift to a non jew. (assuming that gifting to that individual is permitted) For example a business associate who you would like to curry favor with, for future business dealings etc. Nevertheless storing them would be a problem lest you may accidentally consume them. So the best advice would be to regift them shortly after you receive them.


#5

The reason that we cannot drink ืกืชื ื™ื™ื ื from those who we donโ€™t have any real ื—ืฉืฉ of avoda zara would seem to be ื—ืชื ื•ืช.

Surely the ื—ื›ืžื™ื were only allowed to be ื’ื•ื–ืจ on that which is similar to the Torah issue of ื™ื™ืŸ ื ืกืšโ€ฆ

Re ื—ืชื ื•ืช, YD 127(7) appears to tell us that if wine is touched without kavana by non-idolworshipping non-Jew, itโ€™s mutarโ€ฆ:-

ื™ืฉ ืžื™ ืฉืื•ืžืจ ืฉื›ืœ ืžืงื•ื ืฉืืžืจื• ื‘ื™ื™ืŸ ืฉืœื ื• ืฉื”ื•ื ืžื•ืชืจ ื‘ื”ื ืื” ื•ืืกื•ืจ ื‘ืฉืชื™ื™ื” ืžืคื ื™ ืฆื“ ื ื’ื™ืขื” ืฉื ื’ืข ื‘ื• ื”ืขื•ื‘ื“ ื›ื•ื›ื‘ื™ื ื›ืฉื”ื™ื” ื”ืขื•ื‘ื“ ื›ื•ื›ื‘ื™ื ืขื•ื‘ื“ ืืœื™ืœื™ื ืื‘ืœ ืื ื”ื™ื” ืื™ืกื•ืจื• ื‘ื’ืœืœ ืขื•ื‘ื“ ื›ื•ื›ื‘ื™ื ืฉืื™ื ื• ืขื•ื‘ื“ ืืœื™ืœื™ื ืฉื ื’ืข ื‘ื™ื™ืŸ ืฉืœื ื• ืฉืœื ื‘ื›ื•ื•ื ื” ืื• ืฉื˜ืคื— ืขืœ ืคื™ ื”ื—ื‘ื™ืช ื”ืจื™ ื–ื” ืžื•ืชืจ ื‘ืฉืชื™ื™ื” ื•ื›ืŸ ื›ืœ ื›ื™ื•ืฆื ื‘ื–ื”:

Whatโ€™s the issue then based on this with buying wine in a supermarket? What would be the reason to assume ืœื—ื•ืžืจื” that the wine was a) touched by a xn; and b) that a xn falls into the category of ืข"ื› in the first place since they generally anyway believe in one G-d and we would not define them as โ€˜pagansโ€™. Also they have no intention at all to do anything with the wine, theyโ€™re simply bottling itโ€ฆ

TIA.


#6

I commend you on your argument.
We thought about this and discussed it thoroughly many years ago.
We followed that by a trip to the wineries on the North Fork of Long Island, together with my Father and several guys from the Kollelโ€ฆ
We went from winery to winery and they were all saying, โ€œthereโ€™s no way that a person can touch or pour the wine.โ€
Finally we spoke to the foremost maven there, I forgot his name, but you can tell he knew his stuff. He said that everyone is lying to you, because there are hoses that go from tanks to barrels and/or vice-versa that can easily contain a dozen bottles worth of wine. So, they need to salvage that wine by pouring it into a pail.
I do believe that the cheaper wines that are manufactured and sold in huge volumes are not touched by humans at all, nor poured by humans. I did not continue looking into that. If you can confirm that, itโ€™s Kosher and you can use it for Kiddush.


#7

Thank you for commending my logic. :slight_smile:

How would one go about confirming whether these wines you reference are โ€˜not touched by humans at allโ€™โ€ฆ ?


#8

A letter from the company would work, but you need to make sure that they understand the question.
I was always planning to ask for a tour of the factory, so I can understand it properly. But certainly a proper letter is fine.