Zmanim- MA / GRA

Prayers and Blessings
1

Regarding Zmanim, do we follow the Magen Avraham or the Gra?

2

Rabbiโ€™s words - ืžื™ื“ื™ ืกืคืง ืœื ื™ืฆืื ื•

3

Does he agree with the ืื’ืจื•ืช ืžืฉื” in ืื•"ื— ื—"ื ืกื™ืžืŸ ื›ื“ that ื”ืขื™ืงืจ ืœื“ื™ื ื ื›ืฉื™ื˜ืช ื”ื’ืจ"ื?

4

Itโ€™s not 100% clear to me. If I recall correctly the Aruch Hashulchan also says something similar. I think he writes Halevai people would keep the Gra Zman.

If Iโ€™m remembering correctly, the Rabbi told me to be Makpid on the M"A for Kriat Shema. But as I recall also said that if youโ€™re in Shul and the Chazan isnโ€™t going to make the Gr"a, go ahead and say ืง"ืฉ with the ื‘ืจื›ื•ืช. But if itโ€™s the ืž"ื - itโ€™s enough to just say ืง"ืฉ alone.

So to your point I guess we can make the case that the โ€œmainโ€ opinion is the Gr"a but weโ€™re also ื—ื•ืฉืฉ for the Magen Avraham.

If someone else remembers differently Iโ€™d love to hear.

5

ืื’ืจื•ืช ืžืฉื” ืื•"ื— ื—"ื ืกื™ืžืŸ ื›ื“

ื‘ื“ื‘ืจ ื–ืžืŸ ืง"ืฉ ื‘ืฉื—ืจื™ืช ื”ื ื” ืžื ื”ื’ ืจื•ื‘ ืžืงื•ืžื•ืช ืฉื‘ืžื“ื™ื ืชื ื• ืจื™ื™ืกืŸ ื•ืœื™ื˜ื ื•ื›ืŸ ืžื ื”ื’ ื”ื™ืฉื™ื‘ื•ืช ื”ื™ื” ืขื“ ืฉืœืฉ ืฉืขื•ืช ืžื ืฅ ื”ื—ืžื” ื›ืฉื™ื˜ืช ื”ื’ืจ"ื ื•ื”ื’ืจ"ื– ื•ื›ืŸ ื”ื•ื ื”ืขื™ืงืจ ืœื“ื™ื ื ื‘ื›ืœ ื”ืขื ื™ื ื™ื ื•ืจืง ื™ื—ื™ื“ื™ื ื”ื™ื• ืžื—ืžื™ืจื™ืŸ ืœืขืฆืžืŸ ืขื“ ื’โ€™ ืฉืขื•ืช ืžืขืœื•ืช ื”ืฉื—ืจ, ื•ื‘ืœื•ื— ื™ืฉ ืœืงื‘ื•ืข ื›ืขืฆื ื”ื“ื™ืŸโ€ฆื•ื›ืŸ ื™ืจืื” ื™ื“ื™ื“ื™ ื‘ื›ืœ ื”ืžืงื•ืžื•ืช ื‘ืž"ื‘ ืฉื“ืขืชื• ื ื•ื˜ื” ื›ื”ื’ืจ"ื ื•ื”ืจื‘ื” ืจืืฉื•ื ื™ื ืกื•ื‘ืจื™ืŸ ื›ืŸ. ื•ืœื›ืŸ ืื™ื ื™ ืจื•ืฆื” ืœื”ื™ื›ื ืก ื‘ืคืœืคื•ืœื ื‘ืขื ื™ืŸ ื–ื” ื›ื™ ืžื” ืื ื—ื ื• ืœื”ื›ืจื™ืข ื‘ื™ืŸ ื”ืจื™ื ื’ื“ื•ืœื™ื ืื‘ืœ ื”ื’ืจ"ื ื”ื•ื ื‘ืชืจืื” ื•ื”ืกื›ื™ืžื• ืขืœื™ื• ื›ืœ ื”ืขื•ืœื ืฉื”ื•ื ื’ื“ื•ืœ ื˜ื•ื‘ื ื•ืจืื•ื™ ืœื”ื›ืจื™ืข ื•ื"ื› ื”ืœื›ื” ื›ื‘ืชืจืื”, ื•ื‘ืคืจื˜ ืฉื’ื ื”ื’ืจืฉ"ื– ืกื•ื‘ืจ ื›ืŸ

1 Like
6

So if I understand correctly, the Rav would recommend always saying (just the) Kriat Shema before the zman of the Magen Avraham, to be yotze according to the MA if the minyan prays later. So what is the point of saying Shema with the berachot before the zman of the Gra if he is already yotze?

7

The Rabbi recommended making a Tnai. If the real Zman is MA, then Iโ€™m being Yotzeh with that one. Otherwise, itโ€™s like reading Torah and the next one with the Tzibbur counts.

8

do you know how the rav calculated zman kirat shema of magen avraham ? from his own perception of the time of alot and tzeit hakochavim ? or 72 fixed minutes for both ? or other ?
thanks

9

Not fixed. Thatโ€™s for sure. I canโ€™t say how the Rabbi calculated Alot Hashachar. He said back in Teveria, they knew how to tellโ€ฆ I donโ€™t have a specific formula (specific degrees etc). It varies throughout the year though.
For Tzeit Hakochavim, thatโ€™s based on 3 stars. Somewhere in the 20-30 minute range.

1 Like
10

Screenshot_20260624-123737~2
Screenshot_20260624-123737~21355ร—3120 424 KB

1 Like