What are some general guidelines in ordering fish and pasta at a non-kosher restaurant?
By fish, I mean varieties that don’t have a bishul concern such as salmon and tuna.
And from what I understand, pasta falls under “pat palter”
What considerations should we have for the utensils, etc. etc.?
One may NOT eat fish or pasta at a non-kosher restaurant.
Just so that I understand, what are the potential halachic issues?
How is this different than buying vegetable soup at a non-kosher restaurant (which has been discussed in this forum previously)
Please show me where on this website it says its ok to eat a vegetable soup in a non kosher restaurant. I don’t believe it says it anywhere on this forum. If it does, it’s a mistake.
Here’s the issue. You seem to have made a blanket rule that vegetable soup at a non-kosher restaurant is ok while we never said that because it’s simply not true.
If you read the thread you are quoting you will notice there are many requirements much of which you actually cant fulfill and as such this ruling is almost never relevant.
You may not just walk into a non-kosher restaurant and order vegetable soup.
This is why I hate answering these types of questions on this forum where many are very ignorant when it comes to the complex halachot of kashrut. Too many times readers of this forum miss the nuances and take what we answered to a specific scenario with specific details and just start applying the ruling to whatever they see fit even though they are very much ignorant to the halacha.
Now I will get to a question that has been bothering me for a while. We live in America where there is kosher food where ever you turn. There’s a Walmart on every corner and a grocery on the next corner. Why does anyone find the need to walk into a non-kosher restaurant to eat? If the place is not kosher then for you to eat anything you would need to be in the kitchen watching them make you something kosher in a kosher pot with only kosher ingredients and then serve it to you with clean utensils. Oh, and they cant turn on the fire in many cases because of bishul akum. And this is just the beginning of the halachic concerns related to eating in a non-kosher restaurant.
(In rare and very specific situations eating in a non-kosher restaurant is the only option and for those situations, we try helping people figure out what they can and cannot eat so they don’t starve.)
I don’t live in Lakewood, New York or Los Angeles. I have very very limited access to kosher food. This is out of necessity, not out of desire to eat at a non kosher restaurant.
I am therefore reaching out for help. I rather know the laws and do things correctly when I order at a non-kosher restaurant rather than go in blindly and sin.
In my line of business, I also attend many business meetings at non kosher restaurants. There are some days where I only have access to food from the office building cafeteria.
In that case, it is too difficult to give blanket rules as mentioned above. Please provide very specific questions and we will try to help.
Thank you. So specifically, how can I order a piece of salmon seasoned with salt and pepper? Baked, fried or grilled?
How about regular pasta with olive oil, fresh tomatoes, salt and pepper?
Only if you kasher the pan and utensils they will use to cook the fish. Then you need to stand there and watch the entire process while they are preparing the food to ensure only kosher ingredients are used with the kosher pots and kosher utensils. You will also need to turn on the fire for them to cook with. The salmon will need to have the skin on as well. Fried will not work because they will be using the same oil they used for non-kosher.
The same applies to pasta.
Basically, not a very practical approach to eating.
You should not eat in a non-kosher restaurant because it’s almost impossible to prepare kosher food in a non-kosher restaurant.
You may, however, order some vegetables but be sure to check them for bugs prior to eating.
Going in blindly and sinning is, well, a sin.
Is salmon an issue of bishul akum these days since people eat sushi?
Salmon is still an issue of bishul akum despite people eating it raw nowadays.
What about in a vegan restaurant, where, for religious reasons, they don’t use animal products at all?
Can you eat in a vegetarian restaurant if you order the vegan food?
Still has issues of bishul akum and bugs in vegetables.
There is a thread with @aaron.abadi who says this does not constitute as bishul akum. Is there a reason for the different psak ?
What doesn’t constitute bishul Akum? Please share a link to this thread you mentioned.
Is it this?
Or this?
Here is an additional thread where @aaron.abadi states his father agreed fish which is commonly eaten raw does not pose a bishul concern Travel in Europe