Welchs Grape Juice

Is Welch’s grape juice without hashacha permitted?
Thx.

yes

Why?

Aren’t grape juices usually an issue?

They certainly can be. Welch’s was researched and it’s ok.

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What specifically is ok about it?

Its Mevushal, and additionally (very importantly) never comes in contact with the non Jewish employee prior to reaching its mevushal status.

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If I may add, Dr. Welch was a religious tee-teetotaler. He wanted to produce something for sacrament that was free of alcohol. grapes commence fermentation as soon as the skins are broken, the crush. To avoid even the beginning of fermentation, Dr.Welch discovered that by pasteurising the grapes whole, it killed the yeast, and then the grapes were crushed. In other words mevushal in the skins. The juice is pasteurised again a few times. The grape juice production is 100% automated, including dropping the grapes into the hopper prior to cooking.

Cool :+1:

My understanding is that all US grape production is made this way. Including Kedem, that insist they have a non-mevushal variety. Impossible. pasteurising juices is governed by strict FDA regs. Min 160 degrees for several seconds, and shorter period at higher temps… The OU or whomever supervises Kedem say it has to be 180 to be mevushal or something like that. Ergo, Kedem’s 1,5 litre is non-mevushal. What temperature does Rabbi Abadi say grape juice/ wine becomes mevushal?

Everything gets pasteurized. The issue halachically is being sure that the pasteurization occurs before coming in contact with any human. Even taking a sample with a probe can be a problem. With Welch’s we know it’s OK. Others, we don’t know.

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Sorry to repeat, but at what temperature does Rabbi Abadi consider is enough for mevushal?
Thx

Sorry. Not sure of an exact temp. Don’t recall the Rabbi giving a number. If anyone else heard, please post…

R .Abadi holds that anything past 130 degrees Fahrenheit is already is considered to be safek bishul and thus muttar for Stam Yeinam, since it’s a safek derabbanan. See attached photo.

Hi, I’ve worked in Welch’s plants. At least at one plant, they pasteurize at the end of the process. Meaning everything is done to the grape before the actual pasteurization occurs. Including putting the grapes through presses. They do pull samples for the lab at various parts of the line, and they do use machines to tell the presses and the vats what to do. They also handle water hoses and spray to clean off the grapes from the machines, putting those grapes back into the process.

It has been a while since I’ve been in there, but I can go through as much of the process as I remember if you want, via phone or whatever, and go through as many of the parts where they may take a sampling.

What I do definitely remember is that the pasteurization takes place AFTER everything, right before the juice goes into the storing vat.

Hmm if R’ Abadi considers 130 to be bishul then the above that I wrote may not be an issue - everything is done hot, but I forget the exact temp. Not quite hot enough to scald, or at least to scald badly, but quite warm and it is uncomfortable to touch.

Thanks for the insight.
Do you recall how they pull samples from the line? Do they come in contact with the juice? Last we checked this wasn’t the case.

There are many plants and each plant may have a different set up (this also applies to the bishul, I know I’ve seen plants where the pasteurization happens at the beginning). But I think they use tools, not by hand - the juice is technically too hot to handle by hand, so maybe they use a pitcher or a beaker to grab a sample. It’s been some years.

To repeat, the grapes are pasteurised before the crush at Welchs. The juice is also pasteurised 4 more times before bottling and finally in the bottles!. Contact welchs and they will send you details of the process. I have them including daigrams. There’s not a chance a human gets near any of the product
cheers,
Martin

Thanks all. Status remains the same. Welch’s is Kosher

Not at all plants. I know this 100% having physically been in some plants. Some they pasteurize before. Others they pasteurize at end of process. I KNOW this. I’ve physically stood there and seen the pasteurization equipment at the END of the line, not the beginning.